This hits home - the 'self censorship'. I see so many vomiting their opinions online, yet I refrain from doing so - I tell myself 'social media isn't the place for it', and to be fair, I stay true to myself if I'm having an in-person conversation. During the pandemic, I posted a meme critical of vaccine passports, and got jumped on by a couple of friends (I was living overseas, hadn't seen either individual in years). I was happy to defend my viewpoint, and stayed friendly, but the same friendliness or civility was not granted to me. My friend in the UK often complains that the new 'thing' seems to be decided behind closed doors - 'this is what we have to care about now' - who is deciding this? Well, the more of us who are silent, the worse it will get. I think it's finding a way to converse about these topics without being a screeching banshee (which is what I feel inside). Calm and reasonable disagreement. Tackling the difficult issues will pay off in the long run. And if you lose friends over civil discussion... were they even friends to begin with?
I can so relate to this. I've seen friends in the UK behaving like this, too. One in particular will tell people (on facebook) that 'If you think (such and such thing) then you can f... off, and unfriend me'! I really care about this particular friend, but these announcements are disturbing. Whether it's about Brexit, immigration or something else, the message is that 'If you don't agree with me then you're a bigot and no longer a friend of mine'. What has happened to society? Reasoned debate? Acceptance of differences of opinion? Btw, this friend is in his fifties, so not a hormonal, confused teenager. He's an intelligent man. Just unwilling to engage with 'bigots' (bigots being people who don't share his liberal world view)
Ha! I see the 'unfriend me NOW!' posts a lot. Ridiculous, and so performative. Most of the people posting are not even able to articulate their views face-to-face, they just enjoy the theater of being outraged. I was living in China when the referendum was happening. I was following it closely, and decided to vote via proxy. Only one of the other Brits I worked with bothered to vote, and it was only because it had been a topic of conversation between his American girlfriend and I. We were having dinner as a faculty when the results were coming in. My American colleagues had known how ardently I was supporting the UK leaving the EU, so were cheering on the results. My very close British colleagues were bereft, calling anyone who had voted for this a bigot, a racist, and so on (once the final results were in). When realising their upset, I didn't rub it in, but I did wonder how they had gone an entire year hanging out with such an obvious bigot and racist as myself (!!!) - clearly not great judges of character! Additionally, if they had cared so much about the outcome of the referendum... why not vote? Why were they not engaged? I saw this over and over.
But yes, not limited to Brexit - multiple things. Social media makes it easier to make these big proclamations without having to back them up, or indeed tell someone personally that you will no longer be friends with them.
Yes, Mel, this whole Brexit thing really divided people (I have a feeling you and I talked about this in the past) And I was always on the fence, as I simply felt I didn't know enough to make a reasoned choice, especially since I no longer live in the U.K. Yet seeing the reaction of remainers (towards Brexiteers) and the snobbery and contempt they showed them pushed me into spending a lot of time researching why Brexit had happened. The more I read, the more I saw a glaring class and culture divide in the U.K, and that some people (the haves) were living in a bubble and could not understand why the 'have nots' were struggling with huge demographic change and labour and resource competition. The funny thing is that a refrain I often hear from Remainers is that people voted Brexit because they were brainwashed or lied to. And how gullible they were. Yet, while visiting the U.K, I remember reading the following comment in the 'Mirror' A voter proudly stated: 'I voted 'remain' because the Mirror told me to'
I totally agree with you, Mel, social media means we can vent and rage, free of the need to spend the time and energy it takes to talk through these thorny issues. That's what worries me most of all. Civil discourse has broken down.
It's interesting - a lot of the problems DO stem from a class divide. I always find it amusing to hear how much lefties care about the underprivileged... until they get the chance to vote, and then the same underprivileged are referred to as 'gammon'. Heaven forbid someone without a college degree voted in the referendum! It's not like any of the EU laws really impacted the working class, eh?
I think I said this before, but in person, I have found people to be a little more flexible, when I lay out the 'why' of voting to leave the EU. That being said, I worked for a company in Saigon, where coincidentally, one of the high-ups was from a middle-upper/middle-class town near to where I'm from. A group of us ended up having drinks one night, and the conversation moved to Brexit. I admitted which way I voted (I'm from a working class town - so I guess I fit the stereotype!), and he seemed very amiable - we had an in depth conversation, and it was a fun night.
However...
Weeks later, he blocked my contract renewal (which had been requested by my American manager). I'd like to think it was a coincidence, but...!
Spot on, Mel! A particular friend of mine, who was constantly whining about Brexit, was completely fine with denigrating working class people in this way, and hinting at them all being stupid, uneducated, and gullible, etc and that their concerns were all down to tribalism and racism. I think he also used terms like 'gammon' It really started to grate on me. The last time we talked he casually mentioned 'the plebs' who had to wait in the slower queue at the airport while he was on some business trip in which he got first class seats. This kind of attitude and discourse really exposes the hypocrisy, double standards and snobbery of some (not all) on the modern left. Despite thinking of themselves as left/liberal, they are just as class- conscious as people in the past. Very interesting about your contract being blocked. It really wouldn't surprise me if it was political. Very strange times we're living in.
Cheeky bastard! I'm sure he is a follower of the #bekind brigade though, so it's ok. ;) Yes, I don't see the UK moving out of it's class obsession. It will be interesting to see where the next general election takes us.
Social media has built an Earth sized pillory and we can't wait to stick the next person on it. It's like all of high school English had a baby: The Scarlet Letter, The Lottery, 1984, Brave New World, Animal Farm, and The Handmaid's Tale.
“We are a nation of 4 yr olds that need a nap.” Couldn’t agree more. Adults caving to the wants of children never ends well. I will say if your friendship with someone is solely based on politics it probably won’t fair very well long term. Good friends love you and support you no matter what your personal opinions on the issues are. Also, caring so much about what others think of you is exhausting. I can be pretentious as hell, I know that, and there are certainly people who probably don’t like that about me but there are those who do accept me (and remind me to come off my high horse 🥴 occasionally) despite that. I do always try and be kind, but I also won’t be dishonest.
I tell people they are my friends. They never tell me that. I don't know what being a "dick" online even means besides the egregious examples. I got blasted drunk the other day and re joined Michael Malice's Locals page. I thought something had happened because every post I made would vanish. I wasn't trying to be a dick but I asked him about it on Twitter and he was naturally confused because I had suggested maybe I was blocked. I'm so paranoid everyone has something shitty to say about me because no one ever has the balls to talk to me directly. But when Michael tweeted back to my concern "wtf" and "I don't block anyone on Locals" I felt immediately embarrassed like I had ruined my one chance with the dude.
I haven't drank since. I hate alcohol but sometimes I can be an escapist addict. Malice did nothing wrong and honestly neither did I but I felt like I looked like I was being a dick online. I consider Malice and Bridget and those type of awesome people as my friends even if that sounds sad because I'm just essentially a fan. I root for these people's success.
I consider myself a writer. I've written books, had a poem about a slug published in high school. I don't care about pleasing standards others have for me. I'm a chronic trope buster and sometimes it gets me into trouble. I'm insecure. I'm flawed. I make mistakes. I get too emotional. I'm human. But for the life of me I still don't understand why I'm a human no one seems to want to talk to in real life. I love you all, even if I'm a pain your ass. ❤️
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. You are not alone. Actually, you are part of an exhausted, intimidated majority. If you want to join others who are tired of the polarization we’re experiencing, I suggest you take a look at Braver Angels (www.braverangels.org), a nationwide, non-partisan movement bringing people together across differences to find common ground and encourage politicians to do the same. A good place to start would be a Red-Blue workshop or 1:1 Conversation across Differences. (Note: All offerings are free.) You can also subscribe for free or become a member for only $12 per year, and/or reach out to the NJ state coordinators, so you can join the NJ alliance. You’ll be happy you did.
I totally get where they're coming from. I generally avoid making declarative statements about politically difficult topics. At least not beyond the issue of CoVid. Mainly because I can get into trouble for pointing to things. I try to stay politically neutral on my social media.
This hits home - the 'self censorship'. I see so many vomiting their opinions online, yet I refrain from doing so - I tell myself 'social media isn't the place for it', and to be fair, I stay true to myself if I'm having an in-person conversation. During the pandemic, I posted a meme critical of vaccine passports, and got jumped on by a couple of friends (I was living overseas, hadn't seen either individual in years). I was happy to defend my viewpoint, and stayed friendly, but the same friendliness or civility was not granted to me. My friend in the UK often complains that the new 'thing' seems to be decided behind closed doors - 'this is what we have to care about now' - who is deciding this? Well, the more of us who are silent, the worse it will get. I think it's finding a way to converse about these topics without being a screeching banshee (which is what I feel inside). Calm and reasonable disagreement. Tackling the difficult issues will pay off in the long run. And if you lose friends over civil discussion... were they even friends to begin with?
I can so relate to this. I've seen friends in the UK behaving like this, too. One in particular will tell people (on facebook) that 'If you think (such and such thing) then you can f... off, and unfriend me'! I really care about this particular friend, but these announcements are disturbing. Whether it's about Brexit, immigration or something else, the message is that 'If you don't agree with me then you're a bigot and no longer a friend of mine'. What has happened to society? Reasoned debate? Acceptance of differences of opinion? Btw, this friend is in his fifties, so not a hormonal, confused teenager. He's an intelligent man. Just unwilling to engage with 'bigots' (bigots being people who don't share his liberal world view)
Ha! I see the 'unfriend me NOW!' posts a lot. Ridiculous, and so performative. Most of the people posting are not even able to articulate their views face-to-face, they just enjoy the theater of being outraged. I was living in China when the referendum was happening. I was following it closely, and decided to vote via proxy. Only one of the other Brits I worked with bothered to vote, and it was only because it had been a topic of conversation between his American girlfriend and I. We were having dinner as a faculty when the results were coming in. My American colleagues had known how ardently I was supporting the UK leaving the EU, so were cheering on the results. My very close British colleagues were bereft, calling anyone who had voted for this a bigot, a racist, and so on (once the final results were in). When realising their upset, I didn't rub it in, but I did wonder how they had gone an entire year hanging out with such an obvious bigot and racist as myself (!!!) - clearly not great judges of character! Additionally, if they had cared so much about the outcome of the referendum... why not vote? Why were they not engaged? I saw this over and over.
But yes, not limited to Brexit - multiple things. Social media makes it easier to make these big proclamations without having to back them up, or indeed tell someone personally that you will no longer be friends with them.
Yes, Mel, this whole Brexit thing really divided people (I have a feeling you and I talked about this in the past) And I was always on the fence, as I simply felt I didn't know enough to make a reasoned choice, especially since I no longer live in the U.K. Yet seeing the reaction of remainers (towards Brexiteers) and the snobbery and contempt they showed them pushed me into spending a lot of time researching why Brexit had happened. The more I read, the more I saw a glaring class and culture divide in the U.K, and that some people (the haves) were living in a bubble and could not understand why the 'have nots' were struggling with huge demographic change and labour and resource competition. The funny thing is that a refrain I often hear from Remainers is that people voted Brexit because they were brainwashed or lied to. And how gullible they were. Yet, while visiting the U.K, I remember reading the following comment in the 'Mirror' A voter proudly stated: 'I voted 'remain' because the Mirror told me to'
I totally agree with you, Mel, social media means we can vent and rage, free of the need to spend the time and energy it takes to talk through these thorny issues. That's what worries me most of all. Civil discourse has broken down.
It's interesting - a lot of the problems DO stem from a class divide. I always find it amusing to hear how much lefties care about the underprivileged... until they get the chance to vote, and then the same underprivileged are referred to as 'gammon'. Heaven forbid someone without a college degree voted in the referendum! It's not like any of the EU laws really impacted the working class, eh?
I think I said this before, but in person, I have found people to be a little more flexible, when I lay out the 'why' of voting to leave the EU. That being said, I worked for a company in Saigon, where coincidentally, one of the high-ups was from a middle-upper/middle-class town near to where I'm from. A group of us ended up having drinks one night, and the conversation moved to Brexit. I admitted which way I voted (I'm from a working class town - so I guess I fit the stereotype!), and he seemed very amiable - we had an in depth conversation, and it was a fun night.
However...
Weeks later, he blocked my contract renewal (which had been requested by my American manager). I'd like to think it was a coincidence, but...!
Spot on, Mel! A particular friend of mine, who was constantly whining about Brexit, was completely fine with denigrating working class people in this way, and hinting at them all being stupid, uneducated, and gullible, etc and that their concerns were all down to tribalism and racism. I think he also used terms like 'gammon' It really started to grate on me. The last time we talked he casually mentioned 'the plebs' who had to wait in the slower queue at the airport while he was on some business trip in which he got first class seats. This kind of attitude and discourse really exposes the hypocrisy, double standards and snobbery of some (not all) on the modern left. Despite thinking of themselves as left/liberal, they are just as class- conscious as people in the past. Very interesting about your contract being blocked. It really wouldn't surprise me if it was political. Very strange times we're living in.
Cheeky bastard! I'm sure he is a follower of the #bekind brigade though, so it's ok. ;) Yes, I don't see the UK moving out of it's class obsession. It will be interesting to see where the next general election takes us.
Social media has built an Earth sized pillory and we can't wait to stick the next person on it. It's like all of high school English had a baby: The Scarlet Letter, The Lottery, 1984, Brave New World, Animal Farm, and The Handmaid's Tale.
“We are a nation of 4 yr olds that need a nap.” Couldn’t agree more. Adults caving to the wants of children never ends well. I will say if your friendship with someone is solely based on politics it probably won’t fair very well long term. Good friends love you and support you no matter what your personal opinions on the issues are. Also, caring so much about what others think of you is exhausting. I can be pretentious as hell, I know that, and there are certainly people who probably don’t like that about me but there are those who do accept me (and remind me to come off my high horse 🥴 occasionally) despite that. I do always try and be kind, but I also won’t be dishonest.
I tell people they are my friends. They never tell me that. I don't know what being a "dick" online even means besides the egregious examples. I got blasted drunk the other day and re joined Michael Malice's Locals page. I thought something had happened because every post I made would vanish. I wasn't trying to be a dick but I asked him about it on Twitter and he was naturally confused because I had suggested maybe I was blocked. I'm so paranoid everyone has something shitty to say about me because no one ever has the balls to talk to me directly. But when Michael tweeted back to my concern "wtf" and "I don't block anyone on Locals" I felt immediately embarrassed like I had ruined my one chance with the dude.
I haven't drank since. I hate alcohol but sometimes I can be an escapist addict. Malice did nothing wrong and honestly neither did I but I felt like I looked like I was being a dick online. I consider Malice and Bridget and those type of awesome people as my friends even if that sounds sad because I'm just essentially a fan. I root for these people's success.
I consider myself a writer. I've written books, had a poem about a slug published in high school. I don't care about pleasing standards others have for me. I'm a chronic trope buster and sometimes it gets me into trouble. I'm insecure. I'm flawed. I make mistakes. I get too emotional. I'm human. But for the life of me I still don't understand why I'm a human no one seems to want to talk to in real life. I love you all, even if I'm a pain your ass. ❤️
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. You are not alone. Actually, you are part of an exhausted, intimidated majority. If you want to join others who are tired of the polarization we’re experiencing, I suggest you take a look at Braver Angels (www.braverangels.org), a nationwide, non-partisan movement bringing people together across differences to find common ground and encourage politicians to do the same. A good place to start would be a Red-Blue workshop or 1:1 Conversation across Differences. (Note: All offerings are free.) You can also subscribe for free or become a member for only $12 per year, and/or reach out to the NJ state coordinators, so you can join the NJ alliance. You’ll be happy you did.
I totally get where they're coming from. I generally avoid making declarative statements about politically difficult topics. At least not beyond the issue of CoVid. Mainly because I can get into trouble for pointing to things. I try to stay politically neutral on my social media.
It appears that this person's problem is really social media. They should simply get off of it as so many have.