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PH's avatar

“What else do you call this besides a patriarchy?” - ummm, I call that a crappy husband. Also, I don’t know your circumstances, so maybe age is a factor, but why would you have a baby when you’re already up to your eyeballs in law school?

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CT's avatar

Totally agree with the possibility of a crappy spouse. Having a baby while in graduate school of some sort isn't as crazy to me. I had friends in PT school who had babies...however their spouse was immensely supportive and helpful so it wasn't nearly the struggle that this woman seems to be having. It's all situational

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Scarlett's avatar

Let me ask you this. Do you believe that the same argument questioning why she had a baby while in school and working would be asked towards men in our society? Not questioned specifically by you, because you may be questioning why them as a couple decided to have a child at this time, but questioned by society at large. In this society, it seems people blame the women for either not doing enough or doing too much. There’s no acknowledgment or celebration for the hard work she’s doing to ensure she’s taking care of a child, an “incapacitated” husband, work, school, and household duties. She’s forced into not only traditional gender roles, but also contemporary beliefs that women are “equal” and can do all the same things as men now like have an career and gain a higher education. Also, is age a factor as in are you assuming she’s young and naive, or that you’re of a more seasoned generation that may not understand the experiences of young mothers today?

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PH's avatar

Do I believe the same thing would be asked of a man? No, but that’s because the roles are different. Only a mother can breastfeed and when my daughter was a baby she ate every 2 hours in the first 3 months.

Personally I was in graduate school, had a toddler, a full time job, and moved twice between 2008 and 2010. I understand the stress. While it can be done, it’s not necessarily preferable.

As for age, I meant was the clock ticking. Some women have put off children for so long that it’s now or never.

I don’t know your circumstances but you sound pretty bitter. Seasoned generation? WTH is that? I’m a GenX mom with a teenager in high school. I got both my degrees while working full time. I’m divorced and remarried. We all have our crosses to bear.

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Dr. K's avatar

This is the first nonsensical piece I have seen published here, Bridget. Clearly a crappy husband as others have pointed out. And perhaps related to his health issues...cannot speak to those. Those can sap you unduly.

My wife had health issues before, during, and after her pregnancies (unrelated to the pregnancies, mostly). She did what she could, but I picked up all the other pieces (driving the kids to school, after school activities, room Dad, getting all the meals -- you name it) because, even though she would have liked to (and sometimes tried) it just wasn't in the cards. Sometimes she could, but mostly not.

Having said all that, I never felt bad nor bitched about it like this current correspondent. It was my lot in life and hers and we all do the best we can with what we have. The fact that her husband is either too ill or too lazy to do any work has nothing to do with patriarchy or matriarchy...it has to do with him (and to a lesser extent, her).

Trade him in if you have complaints...but don't make broad societal conclusions based on your individual case, please.

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Georgia McGraw's avatar

If Ben Shapiro had a baby, he'd believe in patriarchy? I had a baby and it does show the at times huge gulf between men and women, but that's not patriarchy, that's evolution. Mind you, my husband is a very good, hands-on father, so that's a big difference. Her problem is a domestic one, not patriarchy.

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Through the looking glass's avatar

I feel the same. When I had our first baby, if anything it turned my feminist ideas on their head! I discovered I loved being a full time mum, and didn't miss work at all. My husband was the main breadwinner during that time, but he was also very hands-on, and is still a fantastic father (we now have three children)

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Georgia McGraw's avatar

Yes, I think it's made me more traditional. It's not a bad thing for mum and dad to have different skills and roles, it's good to be able to complement each other!

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CT's avatar

Yes we were built to complement each other in life!!

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Through the looking glass's avatar

I totally agree. One of the biggest surprises for me when raising the kids was not just how traditional and motherly I became, and how much it fulfilled me, but also to observe how we do have different roles and skills. That said, my husband is an amazing cook, way better than me!

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Scarlett's avatar

So, what happens when a husband and wife make about the same amount and still struggle to get by, and then happen to get pregnant and both must continue to work to survive? You are very lucky and I’m happy that you and your husband made it work, but traditional gender roles can’t really hold up in this economy for millions of people. This is where many men are struggling to adapt from traditional gender roles while many women are busting their butt to survive in a society that is slow to adapt. Recently I heard a young mother say, “We were told as children to have kids and that “it takes a village,” but I didn’t realize that meant I was the “village.”

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Through the looking glass's avatar

Scarlett, that is a very good point, and there's a lot I want to respond to here, so sorry if this reply is long. First of all, I know how lucky I am/was, because right now my husband and I are struggling to get by, despite both of us working. I feel incredibly grateful that wasn't an issue when our kids were small (we were in the right place at the right time) and it most likely couldn't happen now. I totally agree that these traditional gender roles don't work when both partners have to work. I was married for 8 years before we had our first child, so I had a pretty good idea of what kind of father my husband would be. If he'd been the kind to expect me to cook, clean and run around serving him, while he vegged out on the sofa, it wouldn't have worked. Now we both work, and share the household tasks. I guess the answer to your question is that men need to step up. And women need to expect/demand more help. If both partners are working, it's unacceptable that one does the lion's share. This is something you need to work out between your partner, ideally before you start a family. What the lady who posted is going through is terrible. It's impossible to do all that alone. And it wasn't clear to me why her partner isn't pulling his weight (if it was the health issues she mentioned) but it's wrong. But I would say this is down to the individual husband, rather than society.

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Scarlett's avatar

Thank you for your response. Is it down to the individual household though when many women are experiencing the same issues?

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Through the looking glass's avatar

Then, yes, society and attitudes definitely play a part, too (and we are all a part of society at the end of the day) Maybe it also depends on education, and the particular culture, too. But if a woman accepts that behaviour is normal, and the guy gets a free pass, it will continue. When I got married, I didn't expect to be doing everything, and my husband accepted it, even though he came from a very traditional culture (we live in Hungary) where women did everything at home, as well as work full time. He was ahead of his time, though, but now in Hungary, things are improving for women, in that respect. I don't know, I think it's probably a complex mix of various factors. Education is a step forward, so that this generation of men learn and accept that marriage is 50/50 and if they want a healthy, functioning, loving relationship they need to share the roles and tasks (if both partners work) I think that change at a society level will slowly come about from individual couples/households changing things, and it will have a knock-on effect. But education, cultural norms and the government also play a part (sorry if I'm not making much sense, it's been a long day) I basically agree with what you say, it is unfair that in this day and age, many women are still doing the lion's share of the housework and childcare when they also work. Again, I know I'm lucky, but partly it's because I wouldn't have accepted it any other way. And I also see that things have changed a lot, even in just the last 20 years or so, even in traditional countries like Hungary.

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CT's avatar

This sounds frustrating and while I completely understand that health issues will tip the balance to one person picking up more than 50% share of the duties, this sounds a lot less like patriarchy to me than it does having a mate who's unwilling to contribute. I know plenty of men and women that fall into that category. I've also seen and plenty of friends who are excellent spouses who share duties and essentially serve one another to make life function as smoothly as possible.

Not knowing the inner workings of someone else's relationship, from the bare information this writer offers I know if it were me I'd be having some words about the situation and asking for even a modicum of contribution while I'm working to become the family's breadwinner. I've been in relationships that are vastly uneven and it seems as though I'm always the one making 99% of the effort and maybe I'm just a little more confrontational than others but I get to the point where I wouldn't just be able to let it go anymore

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TheHouseOrganic's avatar

My husband is 50 and had an emergency 6-way heart bypass surgery last year, we have two kids, and he is still going strong despite major health struggles. He still takes the lead with doing yard work, working his butt off at his career, and runs circles around me! He WANTS to take care of and provide for his family - it gives him purpose and brings him happiness. In my opinion, what you are blaming on the patriarchy is really just your husband in particular. That's not to say he is a bad person...is he depressed from his health struggles, has he lost a sense of meaning or purpose in life? You need to talk to your husband, and let him know you are overwhelmed and need some help.

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DrMamabear's avatar

Your husband needs to mature and step up to his duties as a father, and these include provision and protection to allow you, the beloved wife he promised to devote his strength to, to be the mother and the heart of the family.

What you are describing is not a patriarchy, it's a fatherless home with two kids and a stranded woman who struggles.

I'm so sorry that you are suffering through this, may you keep on being blessed with the courage and generous love that shines through your sorrowful story.

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Emily's avatar

I'm truly sorry, but it's not the patriarchy, it's your man. I don't agree with the people giving you a hard time about having a baby while being in school, I reckon your hubs' condition came as a surprise and perhaps he feels totally demoralized as a result. It sounds like he's actually struggling with his "patriarchal" identity, ironically.

I know a lot of conservative dudes who are amazing fathers, including my own husband, in spite of their association with the "patriarchy."

I understand your frustration completely, I would beside myself if I was in that situation. I hope the two of you can get some help and balance.

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Mars's avatar

This seems to have been misfiled as a Politically Homeless piece rather than just a rant about someone’s husband being a loser.

Sprinkled in is some ranting about Ben Shapiro, but I’m still not sure what he had to do with this?

Reading this stack is usually the highlight of my week…finding other people who come together in the middle to question the norms….this was not that.

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Christine F's avatar

Wait...what is it about Ben Shapiro that she dislikes, again? Seems like her issue is her husband, not Ben. Why would this woman's relationship with her husband cause anyone (much less Ben) to become woke?

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Scarlett's avatar

Many commenters on this post are missing the point. In history, women didn’t work because they took care of children and housework. Now, she’s working, in law school, and is still the main caregiver and performs the “traditional housewife duties.” Yes, many of you as husbands/many of your husbands might be great, but there is still an enormous issue in society surrounding the division of responsibilities. Now, many women HAVE to work because of the economy, or maybe they WANT to have a career; yet, many families struggle with the division of responsibilities as it relates to children and housework. How does this not describe aspects of modern patriarchy that MANY women are facing today? Just because you aren’t experiencing it, does not mean it doesn’t exist. Check your implicit biases, please.

Many are confused why Ben was brought up. She’s describing how she is now politically homeless compared to her past beliefs after Ben began to change, in her opinion, the way in which he discussed women’s issues and the patriarchy. It seems the change in Ben’s content happened around the same time that she had her child and she began to experience the effects of traditional and conservative beliefs that many people still, either subconsciously or overtly, express in a harmful way towards women and mothers.

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Rich Cromwell's avatar

As a very active father, though my kids are older now, my initial reaction was to shame the husband, but then I realized there's too much info we're not getting here, in addition to only getting half the story. The author mentions health issues, but he could also be working 90/hrs week to make sure they're financially above water while she goes to law school, which isn't exactly cheap. Also, as others have noted, working while with a baby while also going to law school is going to be stressful regardless. The husband could be lazy, she could be dramatic, both those things could be true, or something else altogether could be going on. Whatever the issue is, though, it has nothing to do with the patriarchy or Ben Shapiro.

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Scarlett's avatar

She wrote in her letter that she is in law school and working full-time. How could you just assume he works 90 hours per week to “make sure they’re financially above water” because her schooling is expensive? She works too.

Your comment, sir, is very misogynistic, respectfully. Especially the “dramatic” part.

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Mary Ellen Barrett's avatar

This isn't about patriarchy or feminism. It's about a man-child who doesn't recognize his responsibilities in caring for his wife, child and home.

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Camille Porteous's avatar

Crappy husbands ARE the norm. That is patriarchy.

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Janet McNeill's avatar

Being a now-former but formerly long-time leftie, I never knew much about Ben Shapiro until maybe last year?? - but find his angry tone off-putting. When I heard him make the claim one time that he was the best husband ever, that was it for me. Talk about a big ego! As for patriarchy, well....... I've written a lot about it. I used to write too - decades ago when doing the socially unacceptable thing of staying home to raise kids - about the problems with feminism. Don't get me wrong; I'm a life-long feminist! - but all "movements" have their downsides & missteps. Ideologies can blind us. I don't want to go down that rabbit hole here. I was very blessed to be married for 20 years to a man who pulled his weight with our kids. We did wind up divorced - but I can't deny that he was a good father - & those are a pretty bloody rare commodity. If you feel like seeing some of my old writings about patriarchy, feel free to check out this posting - which links to others on the topic. https://www.janetsplanet.ca/blog/metoo-2-patriarchysucks And, finally, I am sorry some husbands are such crappy ones!

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Janet McNeill's avatar

Couple things about patriarchy (I've commented before, but didn't think to say these 2 things). # 1, Matthew Fox wrote a brilliant prayer about patriarchy that likely most people have not seen. I'll paste it in below. Thing # 2: I heard Jane Fonda say in a speech several years back (yeah, Jane Fonda - love her or hate her!): “The patriarchy is a wounded beast. And nothing is more dangerous than a wounded beast." I found that remark interesting. Here's Matthew Fox: A Litany of Deliverance – A Prayer by Matthew Fox

From Patriarchy’s dualism,

From Patriarchy’s proneness to self-pity,

From Patriarchy’s sentimentalism,

From Patriarchy’s violence,

From Patriarchy’s lack of imagination,

From Patriarchy’s intellectual laziness,

From Patriarchy’s lack of authentic curiosity,

From Patriarchy’s separation of head from body,

From Patriarchy’s separation of body from feelings,

From Patriarchy’s preoccupation with sex,

From Patriarchy’s fear of intimacy,

From Patriarchy’s reptilian brain,

From Patriarchy’s anthropocentrism,

From Patriarchy’s cosmic loneliness,

From Patriarchy’s crucifixion of Mother Earth,

From Patriarchy’s envy and manipulation of children,

From Patriarchy’s abuse of women,

From Patriarchy’s homophobia,

From Patriarchy’s righteousness,

From Patriarchy’s idolatry of nationhood and national security,

From Patriarchy’s forgetfulness of beauty and art,

From Patriarchy’s impotence to heal,

From Patriarchy’s sado-masochism,

From Patriarchy’s parental cannibalism and devouring of its children,

From Patriarchy’s lack of balance,

From Patriarchy’s savaging of the earth,

From Patriarchy’s quest for immortality,

From Patriarchy’s ego,

From Patriarchy’s waste of talent and resources, human and earth,

From Patriarchy’s human chauvinism,

From Patriarchy’s compulsion to go into debt to finance its bloated lifestyles,

From Patriarchy’s matricide, spare us O Divine One.

Prayer by Matthew Fox.

**To be found in 'The Coming of the Cosmic Christ – The Healing of Mother Earth and the Birth of a Global Renaissance,' (Appendix D), Matthew Fox, HarperSanFrancisco, 1988.

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James K's avatar

I'm just saying, in life and in work, I've never met a single person who says they do all the work, who actually does all the work.

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